We Demand an Answer

So as promised, this week’s post is about verses that had been “glossed over” when I was a Protestant. Now to before I started listing these, I should preface my intent a little bit.

In putting forth these verses, I am not doing these things:

  1. Proof texting-saying this one verse proves something wrong and the Catholic Church right in its teaching.
  2. Saying that Protestants reject these verses outright as non-authoritative.
  3. Saying that the Bible contradicts itself.

My intent here is to put forth verses that I have stumbled across in the past year or so, that I had never heard answers to at school, bible study, or church growing up. And it is not that they were never read or hidden (through high school we read all of the New Testament and most of the Old), but that these were never expounded on or explained, regardless of the glaring necessity that they be addressed to justify a Protestant understanding of scripture. So…here we go.

James 2:24 (teased last week)

James always presents a sticky situation for those who want to say that we are saved by faith alone. Its argument is typically summed up in verse 26 “faith without works is dead” In a general sense this passage is typically explained to me that James is saying we are still saved by faith alone, but that works are natural consequence of a living faith. Thus works show faith, but have no inherent, saving merit to them.

Ok…I get that justification of faith alone to verse 26, but the part that I never saw before this year was verse 24 which goes as follows, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” ……..What?! It should be also noted that this is the only passage in the entirety of scripture where the phrase “faith alone” (Sola Fide) appears. Now note that this passage does not say that we are justified by works alone and not faith at all (as my Foundations of Christian Thought professor rebuked me this week), but rather simply states that our justification is not attributed to only faith, but to works as well. This verse and the ones surrounding  (21 and 25 in particular) demand answers to justify the idea that our work has nothing to do with our justification/righteousness.

1 Peter 3:21 and John 3:5

Now ok, I know this isn’t a strictly Protestant/Catholic divide, but the way I was raised and was baptized was with the understanding that baptism is a symbol of being saved or a public proclamation of faith in Christ. Even within Protestantism this is disputed and even Luther would have disagreed with my old church’s stance, but I’m refuting the teachings of my past here so I will proceed.

The verse in 1 Peter goes, “This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.” In John, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, says, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.”

Ok if somehow baptism is just a symbol that has no eternal significance, then I am confused how these verses could be reconciled realistically. These verses demand answers since they are clearly talking about a physical baptism in real water and not some abstract.

John 6:53

Communion is also a pretty big distinction between Catholicism and Protestantism, disagreeing on the presence of Christ in the Eucharist or simply a symbol from the Passion Week. Growing, I always had this feeling that this couldn’t just be a symbol and had to have something more to it. But that was just a hunch.

John 6:53 says, “So Jesus said to them, ‘Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.'” Now this seems pretty drastic, and if you read the context, Jesus says to portray the severity of what he is saying. If he was trying to be symbolic or metaphorical, he has three chances in this passage to retract his controversial statements.

How a merely symbolic or nonessential view of Communion (Eucharist) can be held in light of this passage truly perplexes me.

On this topic of Communion, we can also look to the persecution of the Early Christians. One of the main accusations in the Roman courts was that Christians were cannibals, because of their abominations in the Eucharist. Now it would be bad reasoning to say that because we don’t have any documents where they pleaded, “No, it’s just a symbol!!”  means that they never did. But nevertheless, we don’t have much to say that the first Christians believed that they were partaking in the real body and blood of Christ through Communion.

…but the point here is to focus on Scripture, whoops.

1 Corinthians 3:15

Now this is a verse that that doesn’t really prove a specific point, but it certainly raises questions and was never addressed in my learning of Corinthians.

It goes, “But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

A lot of Catholic apologists point here to “prove” the concept of Purgatory. I think that’s not really a solid argument from what this verse says alone. But nevertheless, I think this verse does raise a good point, both in the discussion of the role of works and of what salvation looks like. This verse is in a passage talking about us as believers building on Christ, our one and only foundation. This “being saved, but only as through fire” language certainly rings familiar to Purgatory. I would love to here a satisfactory Protestant interpretation of this verse.

____________

There are more verses that I have stumbled across and wondered why they are never addressed, but these few I think are the most important ones to bring to conversation.

Again if any reader has a topic they’d like to hear me write about, don’t hesitate to submit a question in the comments.

Peace be with you!

 

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21 Replies to “We Demand an Answer”

  1. I am a convert to the Catholic Church going on 13 years now. I had many of the same questions as you. If you need any help just ask me. Two important books for you to get, well actually three. The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith by John Salza, A Father Who Keeps His Promises by Scott Hahn, The Mass of the Early Christians (I think by Mike Aquilla) These three books helped me more than any understanding the Catholic Church.

    Now, I read your about page and the comment by Sentient Christian, who used to go by Spook Christian. He/she trolls all of us, and the best thing to do is ignore him/her, as it does not get any better, and hopefully he/she will disappear from your blog. The more you engage in conversation the meaner the conversation becomes. In fact I just got where I did not post the comments anymore, and/or deleted them.

    It is not easy being Catholic as this sort of thing goes on all the time, but I will tell you this:

    The Catholic Church as been the greatest blessing of my life. As I said, if you need help just ask. I may not have the answer for you right then, but I can go and find it. God Bless, SR

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hey thanks for your encouragement! I don’t really have any questions in my mind currently. But thank you for your support.
      Sentient Christian is indeed a man. I’ve actually had a decent amount of correspondence with him, both here and on Facebook, Twitter, and even personal email. Of course we disagree with his views, but in a spirit of intellectual integrity, I think it’s important that he be answered when he poses questions and his arguments be laid in plain sight. It would be just as arrogant to shut him out as he might do to our arguments.
      It’s difficult bloggers like him that better refine us and help us find a more defined truth by realizing what it’s not through their words.
      Peace be with you, I will check out those books.

      Like

      1. Do check out those books they will help explain a lot to you. A Father Who Keeps His Promises pieced the whole Bible together for me.

        As far as SC. More power to you. To me an intellectual conversation is one thing, “abuse” is an entirely different matter, and that is where I draw the line! 🙂 Peace be with you, God Bless, SR

        Liked by 1 person

  2. I wanted to come back and say a couple of more things without being intrusive I hope.

    When I became a Catholic I realized I did not have 1500 years worth of teachings regarding everything about Christianity and the Church. I had never heard of people like St. Ignatius of Antioch, who I believe was a disciple of John’s. I did not know the Apostles actually had Mass as their form of worship. I did not know that it stated in the Bible, “The Church was the foundation of the truth.” I had always been taught the Bible was. Now the Bible is the truth, but how we view it, Scripture tells us, that foundation lies within the Church. I did not know the seven Churches in Revelations were in Turkey and had already happened and yes indeed they were Catholic Churches which Jesus shut down. I mean I can go on and on. I studied the Church for 8 years as much as I could, because when I started I could not stop.

    I realized this was a lot of my problem and me trying to explain the Church to others, is they are missing 1500 years worth of teachings, as these teachings along with the Traditions were only given to one Church, as no other existed back then. When you go back to the beginning and get the resources you need for those 1500 years, such as those three books I gave you, that is when it is going to open up for you. Just to give you some info as to why, like us, Protestant’s do not understand, and yes, they do skip over a lot of Scripture as I did, that would piece it all together for them. Piecing that Bible together from Genesis to Revelations was one of the greatest blessings the Catholic Church gave to me. God Bless, SR

    Like

    1. Don’t take this the wrong way, it I don’t think you get the point of this post. The point is to demand explanations of these verse from the Protestant view, not the Catholic one. I’ve seen the Catholic interpretation and I have found them satisfactory. There are no questions in my head, I am merely posing them to others. And…if they can’t find answers, they might recognize that 1500 year gap.

      Like

  3. Oh, I got the point of the post. All I was trying to do is explain why sometimes an explanation cannot be given by a Protestant, because of the 1500 year gap. God Bless, SR

    Like

  4. Lots of verses there but re John 6 – as a starting point it has to be symbolic to some extent – they are not eating Jesus in John 6 – clearly He is being symbolic here – and at the Last Supper. No one has eaten His body or drank His blood either literally or figuratively when people are offended by the saying – if it was just bread and wine they would not have been offended.

    Jesus at the Last Supper is again being symbolic – unless He is both there and the bread and wine which makes no sense….

    So in both mentions Jesus is being symbolic. When Jesus is called the Lamb of God or calls Himself the Bread of Life He is being symbolic…He is not actually a Lamb or loaf of bread.

    You have to work backwards and make a jump to make this apply to the doctrine of Jesus in communion.

    Re: James – Protestants deal with it all the time. If James was by itself then we would stop there and go either way as James by itself can be confusing…but we also have Ephesians 2:8-9, not by works so that none can boast, Romans 3-4 and they clear up any ambiguity very clearly.

    Like

    1. Thomas, thanks for your thoughful response.
      Re: John 6. I totally agree with you when you say, “if it was just bread and wine they would not have been offended.” That’s essentially my entire point. But you actually bring up a good point about how Jesus wasn’t actually a Lamb or bread. I totally agree with you, and I’m not trying to say that Jesus is baked in an oven when communion is made. But He is just as literally a lamb as He is the bread (body) and wine (blood). But these are understood to be real in a spiritual way, for He is truly the perfect lamb offered for our sins and there is no denying this as the language of Christ as an unblemished sacrfice is prolific throughout Hebrews. But again he was not a biological sheep. Instead of looking to only the physical, you should look into the spiritual realities that Christ, New Testament authors, Catholics and Orthodox Christians acknowledge.
      Re: James
      It would be confusing by itself, but that doesn’t make it untrue when he says that we “are not justified by faith alone, but by works.” Now this is quite plain, but it doesn’t negate what is claimed in Ephesians 2:8-9 or Romans 3-4. I’m curious though, do you read Eph 2:8-9 as saying that salvation is a distinct point in time? “For by grace you have been saved,…”

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Think about.
        There is a lot of evidence regarding fossils etc..
        But Atheists, Evolutionists and Creationists use the same evidence but come to a different conclusion.

        Hopefully this explains it ?
        Of course I believe that God Created the Heaven and the Earth.
        Gen 1 v 1 KJV

        Like

      2. I have read what I needed to read thank you.
        stop telling me what I need to do.

        I have already illustrated that you really do not understand the issues.

        Your statement that ‘ Catholics should become better Protestants ‘ actually proves your stupidity..

        I don’t need to do a ‘ deep ‘ study of your callow words.

        You need to get saved Mr Morgan.
        Leave Catholicis.
        No man can serve two masters, you cannot be in obedience to Scripture if your going to Catholic services, and following Catholic teachings.

        Like

      3. Again, please show where the Catholic Church is in contradiction with Scripture and then I will leave it so I can serve one master. But from what I’ve seen they are one and then same, and both support each other’s authority.

        Like

      4. Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!

        Like

      5. Hey! Some concrete objections! (Ignoring all the vicisious ad hominems preceding them)
        Ok so now that you have listed out your 15 objections, since you are saying they contradict the Scriptures, could you show me where? Indeed if the Catholic Church claims to follow Scripture and doesn’t, that would be an illogical system that no logical person could ever be a part of, and would result in me leaving.

        Like

      6. YOUR COMMENT IS UNREAD !!

        Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!
        Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!

        Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!Firstly, I don’t know anyone that is NOT a hypocrite.

        That includes you and your un-edified diatribe and twaddle.
        Can you not see the silliness of the statements that you make in your ramblings.

        They do not make rational sense.
        Your first post, as I remember was about ‘ writing to the reformation ‘. Or maybe it w the second post ?

        Oh yes I remember the one about the inquisitions and your feeble attempt to water down the extent and evil and vile cruelty of the Catholic so-called church.
        If you’re going to pontificate about rational thought, then please try to think rationally.

        I do not care who commented n who’s Blog first, that really is quite a childish response.

        As for academia, of which you think yourself to be a part.-
        I do not care what they say should be the way to do things, especially when they seem to be producing your particular brand of stupidity and downright arrogance,silliness,filling your mind with the most absurd historical inaccuracies.

        Academia does not tell me what to do mister.!!

        I answer a so-called argument in a way that I see fit, although I have no objection to improving my technique/method but taking advice from you really is a bit rich.

        Just because I am commenting on your Blog does not give you right to have any assumed authority over me.

        YOU DO NOT CONTROL THE WORLD FROM YOUR LAPTOP !!

        Check your own Hypocrisy, take the tree out of your own eye.

        Seriously though, you think you can make a statement like
        ‘ catholics should be more Protestant ‘ and actually convince yourself that it was a well thought out / rational / intelligent comment ?
        Haa haa 🙂

        You have inflated / big ideas about yourself.

        You have no understanding of what is truly Protestant at all.
        …………………………..

        Regarding your comment on the Catholic so-called church contradicting Scripture, the list is endless.

        lets start with so-called
        prayers to mary,
        indulgences,
        worship of images,
        the rosary is a blasphemy,
        transubstantiation,
        the scapular,
        the deleting of the 2nd commandment,
        Purgatory,
        the so-called Catholic sacraments, the so-called pope and his title of Pope,
        his assumption of being an apostle,
        the catholic so-called priest allowing himself to be called Fr,
        the assumption of mary
        [ a very big assumption too],
        apparitions,
        the so-called making of saints,
        mary as co-redemptorix,

        15 points altogether.

        I’m sure that I can think of more of them.

        I am ashamed of myself for even bothering with your post you know, and that is because I knew as soon as I saw your stuff on WP, I realized that you really did not know what you are on about, and that you’re trying to swim in water that is too deep for you.

        Not every Protestant is Christian, but,

        Every true Bible believing [ KJV ] Christian is Protestant !!

        I do not accept that you were truly a Protestant.

        My being Protestant is not as a result of my cultural up-bringing but is as a result of my Faith in Jesus Christ and His Word.
        You cannot say that
        you believe Gods’ Word and say that you’re catholic or remain catholic or Muslim or JW,Mormon,Mason, etc…

        There is a long list of false teachings as I listed above.

        Please tell your so-called Jesuit-trained-catholic professor that I think that he is a clown and quite evil for filling your mind with the most trivial and nauseating rubbish !!

        Like

  5. Scott Hahn was never a Christian!
    The logic behind that statement/premise is that
    NO genuine Christian would ever become Catholic or
    accept Catholicism as being ‘ of God ‘.

    Like

    1. My friend that is what we decided to debate head on, and your objections have been considered and the first two have been addressed in my latest post. If you still wish to debate this premise above, please continue to do so in the place we’ve both agreed on (aka: not here)

      Like

      1. Wow re: the discussion. I just crossed the Tiber myself. My father in law is a Lutheran pastor. It may be the 500th anniversary of the Reformation but it is also the 100th anniversary of Fatima. Time to come Home, I said. My husband may come home soon as well. Good to stumble across your blog.

        Liked by 1 person

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